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	<title>Comments on: Springer verdict &#8211; reactions</title>
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	<link>http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/2005/03/31/springer-verdict-reactions/</link>
	<description>Watching. Pointing. Laughing.</description>
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		<title>By: tom p</title>
		<link>http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/2005/03/31/springer-verdict-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-598</link>
		<dc:creator>tom p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/?p=91#comment-598</guid>
		<description>The key claims were demonstrably false. It&#039;s not as though there were other claims in there that would equally have provoked such a storm. The controversy was based on a tissue of lies which were created to whip up just such a storm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The key claims were demonstrably false. It&#8217;s not as though there were other claims in there that would equally have provoked such a storm. The controversy was based on a tissue of lies which were created to whip up just such a storm</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Shell</title>
		<link>http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/2005/03/31/springer-verdict-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-567</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Shell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/?p=91#comment-567</guid>
		<description>Read my comment. You are speaking as though there are only two alternatives: 
(1) All statements were true;
(2) All statements were false.
I believe neither (1) not (2), nor should anyone believe them. I believe (3): some were true, adn some false. So my question is: we agree the false ones were false; what however do we make of the true ones? The falsity of the false ones has no relevance to the truth of the true ones, which is a separate question.

Im sorry if I was using pejorative terms. I didnt think I was; but anyway I try not to. As opposed to gentle teasing and ribbing, whose cathartic power I strongly believe in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read my comment. You are speaking as though there are only two alternatives:<br />
(1) All statements were true;<br />
(2) All statements were false.<br />
I believe neither (1) not (2), nor should anyone believe them. I believe (3): some were true, adn some false. So my question is: we agree the false ones were false; what however do we make of the true ones? The falsity of the false ones has no relevance to the truth of the true ones, which is a separate question.</p>
<p>Im sorry if I was using pejorative terms. I didnt think I was; but anyway I try not to. As opposed to gentle teasing and ribbing, whose cathartic power I strongly believe in.</p>
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		<title>By: tom p</title>
		<link>http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/2005/03/31/springer-verdict-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-560</link>
		<dc:creator>tom p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/?p=91#comment-560</guid>
		<description>firstly, you&#039;ve missed the point again. I was refuting your claims that the statments circulated to whip up a controversy were true. they were demonstrably not.

secondly, now who&#039;s using perjorative terms to thus colour the debate? eh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>firstly, you&#8217;ve missed the point again. I was refuting your claims that the statments circulated to whip up a controversy were true. they were demonstrably not.</p>
<p>secondly, now who&#8217;s using perjorative terms to thus colour the debate? eh?</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Shell</title>
		<link>http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/2005/03/31/springer-verdict-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-545</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Shell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/?p=91#comment-545</guid>
		<description>Of course - but why suppose that I would agree with every statement by (e.g.) CV?

The 8000 figure is wildly untrue; not everyone who bandied it about was aware it was untrue; they were just repeating what they had been told. The true figure was about 200 was it? What is so clever about 200? Pre-c1967 there was no such swearing on tv. This proves that that is achievable. As Eric Sykes says, to be on tv is to be invited into ppl&#039;s living rooms - including those who are flicking thro&#039; channels - with all that that entails in terms of politeness.
One can move goalposts, but this represents an move of thousands of percent in the wrong direction (ie the uncivilised direction) within a single programme.

My point was not that no lies have circulated (whether intentionally or not) but what people make of the true statements which have also circulated. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course &#8211; but why suppose that I would agree with every statement by (e.g.) CV?</p>
<p>The 8000 figure is wildly untrue; not everyone who bandied it about was aware it was untrue; they were just repeating what they had been told. The true figure was about 200 was it? What is so clever about 200? Pre-c1967 there was no such swearing on tv. This proves that that is achievable. As Eric Sykes says, to be on tv is to be invited into ppl&#8217;s living rooms &#8211; including those who are flicking thro&#8217; channels &#8211; with all that that entails in terms of politeness.<br />
One can move goalposts, but this represents an move of thousands of percent in the wrong direction (ie the uncivilised direction) within a single programme.</p>
<p>My point was not that no lies have circulated (whether intentionally or not) but what people make of the true statements which have also circulated.</p>
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		<title>By: tom p</title>
		<link>http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/2005/03/31/springer-verdict-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-518</link>
		<dc:creator>tom p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/?p=91#comment-518</guid>
		<description>Reading it, I realise that I forgot to say that the above quotes were lifted from the e-mail that went round before the broadcast that started off saying something like &#039;The Sikhs have cted so why can&#039;t we&#039;.
oops.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading it, I realise that I forgot to say that the above quotes were lifted from the e-mail that went round before the broadcast that started off saying something like &#8216;The Sikhs have cted so why can&#8217;t we&#8217;.<br />
oops.</p>
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		<title>By: tom p</title>
		<link>http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/2005/03/31/springer-verdict-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-511</link>
		<dc:creator>tom p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/?p=91#comment-511</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;This musical, notorious for containing over 8000 expletives&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;The show&#039;s artistic director admits that it is a deliberate attack on &quot;good taste&quot;, and the BBC concedes that the intended broadcast &quot;pushes back the boundaries of taste and decency&quot;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;No: not lies. If lies are ever repeated, then we can disregard the charge.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The two claims above were both outright lies. The first could be called an exaggeration, but it is so extreme and ludicrous an exaggeration to make it more of an outright lie.
The second contained made-up quotes, the second of which was probably from Stephen Green (see the Bloggerheads link in this piece to see why). This is a lie.

As you, so rightly say, in the 3rd quote above, If lies are ever repeated then we can disregard the charge. People were fed lies to whip up a controversy to impose the views of mediawatch and other similar organisations onto the rest of the public. These were lies, plain and simple. You may feel that the end justified the means, but by your own admission, the charge can be dropped because it was built on a tissue of lies.

If your so-called god is so weak that it can&#039;t take a few digs then you should get a better one. nobody was harmed, but your ilk stirred up a controversy with lies to try to get the programme banned. that is what was so very wrong with what you and your lot did, and if you can&#039;t see it, then doctorates must be getting easier to obtain these days than ever before</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>This musical, notorious for containing over 8000 expletives</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>The show&#8217;s artistic director admits that it is a deliberate attack on &#8220;good taste&#8221;, and the BBC concedes that the intended broadcast &#8220;pushes back the boundaries of taste and decency&#8221;.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>No: not lies. If lies are ever repeated, then we can disregard the charge.</p></blockquote>
<p>The two claims above were both outright lies. The first could be called an exaggeration, but it is so extreme and ludicrous an exaggeration to make it more of an outright lie.<br />
The second contained made-up quotes, the second of which was probably from Stephen Green (see the Bloggerheads link in this piece to see why). This is a lie.</p>
<p>As you, so rightly say, in the 3rd quote above, If lies are ever repeated then we can disregard the charge. People were fed lies to whip up a controversy to impose the views of mediawatch and other similar organisations onto the rest of the public. These were lies, plain and simple. You may feel that the end justified the means, but by your own admission, the charge can be dropped because it was built on a tissue of lies.</p>
<p>If your so-called god is so weak that it can&#8217;t take a few digs then you should get a better one. nobody was harmed, but your ilk stirred up a controversy with lies to try to get the programme banned. that is what was so very wrong with what you and your lot did, and if you can&#8217;t see it, then doctorates must be getting easier to obtain these days than ever before</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Shell</title>
		<link>http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/2005/03/31/springer-verdict-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-470</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Shell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/?p=91#comment-470</guid>
		<description>No: not lies. If lies are ever repeated, then we can disregard the charge. Im talking about people repeating true information.
I certainly agree with you that the C of E hierarchy is living too richly. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No: not lies. If lies are ever repeated, then we can disregard the charge. Im talking about people repeating true information.<br />
I certainly agree with you that the C of E hierarchy is living too richly.</p>
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		<title>By: tom p</title>
		<link>http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/2005/03/31/springer-verdict-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-463</link>
		<dc:creator>tom p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2005 10:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/?p=91#comment-463</guid>
		<description>&#039;Dr&#039; Shell, if you&#039;re genuinely saying that anyone who owns a TV set (and thus presumably pays teh license fee) can complain about any facet of a mooted broadcast that they&#039;ve heard lies about and are repeating these lies without thinking and that they should be taken seriously, then you&#039;re plain wrong. Such people should only be either ignored or ridiculed.

It&#039;s like me complaining about sermons in a CofE church, since my tax quids go into funding the lifestyle of the head of the church and its bishops (who can claim attendance allowances at the house of lords). </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Dr&#8217; Shell, if you&#8217;re genuinely saying that anyone who owns a TV set (and thus presumably pays teh license fee) can complain about any facet of a mooted broadcast that they&#8217;ve heard lies about and are repeating these lies without thinking and that they should be taken seriously, then you&#8217;re plain wrong. Such people should only be either ignored or ridiculed.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s like me complaining about sermons in a CofE church, since my tax quids go into funding the lifestyle of the head of the church and its bishops (who can claim attendance allowances at the house of lords).</p>
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		<title>By: Monitor</title>
		<link>http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/2005/03/31/springer-verdict-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-456</link>
		<dc:creator>Monitor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Apr 2005 10:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/?p=91#comment-456</guid>
		<description>He probably meant to say &quot;abdication&quot;. Maybe he did, and was misquoted. Nevertheless, malapropism duly &lt;i&gt;sicced&lt;/i&gt;. Well spotted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He probably meant to say &#8220;abdication&#8221;. Maybe he did, and was misquoted. Nevertheless, malapropism duly <i>sicced</i>. Well spotted.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Shell</title>
		<link>http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/2005/03/31/springer-verdict-reactions/comment-page-1/#comment-451</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Shell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/?p=91#comment-451</guid>
		<description>Doesnt he mean &#039;abrogation of responsibility&#039; not &#039;aberration&#039;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesnt he mean &#8216;abrogation of responsibility&#8217; not &#8216;aberration&#8217;?</p>
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